Issue #2: A conversation with Dr Emma Hepburn aka The Psychology Mum
'Shoulds are a subtle form of self-flagellation'
Once a month, I’ll be interviewing an expert in order to take a deep dive into a popular ‘Should’. For our first interview, I speak to Dr Emma Hepburn aka The Psychology Mum, the clinical psychologist & author behind the ‘Toolkit’ series, including A Toolkit for Modern Life: 53 Ways to Look After Your Mind, and the upcoming A Toolkit for Your Emotions: 45 Ways to Feel Better (out January 2023, now available for pre-order).
To celebrate the recent launch of this community, Emma & I have a broad-ranging conversation about ‘The Shoulds’ and what they mean. You can either listen to the audio version or read our full conversation transcribed below - whatever suits! The transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.
Francesca Specter: A couple of years ago, I had a session with a life coach where I kept saying things like, ‘Oh, I should do this, or I should feel this.’ The coach told me off every time I said the word ‘should’: ‘That's not the right way to think.’ As a clinical psychologist, do you agree?
Dr Emma Hepburn: I don't necessarily think ‘should’ is always a no-no. I think it depends what standards we're setting. Often when we say Shoulds, we are going by unrealistic standards. Or we're going by standards which aren't ours – societal standards – or we're setting really vague expectations.
If we're doing that, we can never actually achieve those standards. We're always going to feel bad about it. Often when we use the term ‘should’, we’re telling ourselves that what we’re currently doing is wrong. Or we should be doing something differently. It’s a subtle self-flagellation, that looks like it's being positive. It's a really insidious way to beat ourselves up by saying, I should be doing this, I should be doing that.
When actually, maybe we're OK with what we're doing. It depends on the context, doesn't it? How we use it and what Should we're setting for ourselves. And I think to come to your second part, why it's not always bad. We do have standards we need to live by and we should be living by those standards.
If we're not meeting a clear value. Like, ‘I should be kind to my employees at work.’ You should be, you should look after your employees’ wellbeing and you should be kind to employees at work. That is a Should that you should be living by.
Francesca Specter: So some ‘should’ statements can be a positive thing, when it's maybe a duty or an obligation…
Emma Hepburn: Or a value, a really clear value that you want to stick to.
You can't be perfect all the time. That's the problem with our ‘Shoulds’. We set them up so they’re impossible standards, that make us feel what we’re doing right now is wrong .
Francesca Specter: Generally, when we say that we ‘should’ do something – regardless of whether it's good or bad – where does that pressure come from? Is that from within us or is that external?
Dr Emma Hepburn: The ones I've just spoken about are self-oriented values we set ourselves, but actually most Shoulds, I would say, come from unrealistic societal expectations. I should be a perfect parent all the time. I should be busy. I'm lazing around right now – I'm relaxing, but I should be busy. These Shoulds are very much about expectations that are loaded on us. Maybe beliefs that we've heard, societal expectations about what should be done, which are unrealistic or not right for us.
Francesca Specter: You said earlier that the dangerous thing about Shoulds is that when we say, for instance, I should be a great parent, that's immediately invalidating the stuff we're already doing.
Dr Emma Hepburn: Yeah. And it's hugely unrealistic: I should be a perfect parent all the time. I should be a perfect friend. You can't be perfect all the time. That's the problem with our ‘Shoulds’. We set them up so they’re impossible standards, that make us feel what we’re doing right now is wrong. They’re also based on standards which are maybe set by other people or society. Because a perfect parent – what does that mean? I don’t know. What does always being busy mean? It’s unrealistic, but also a really vague standard. If we set ourselves vague standards, we're also never going to meet them. Because we don’t know what we’re working towards.
Francesca Specter: That thing about vague statements is interesting. Because, if I think about it… obviously we each have different kinds of Shoulds. If I think about the ones that I have in my head, it's often about doing something more or doing something better. I should exercise more, I should meditate better. Even though I do those things quite regularly. So, is it about reframing the way that we saying those Shoulds in our heads? For instance, as we might do with an inner critic, reframing that way we're talking to ourselves?
Emma Hepburn: Coming back to your examples, when you say ‘I should be meditating more’ or ‘I should be more busy’, they’re vague statements, so they’re naturally going to create guilt. If you start breaking them down, you can say, what am I doing now? Am I actually doing these things already, and not recognising what I’m doing?
It’s about asking yourself, What does this Should tell me? Is there a value or a need of my own that I’m not meeting? What's behind this feeling that I have, and what can I do – in a small, meaningful, actionable way? So, rather than a should, it becomes ‘I will’ or ‘I can’.
Or is there something I want to be doing differently to meet this value – with your meditation, for instance? And if you do, well, what would that look like? Would you be doing it for one minute, hourly, every morning? That’s a clear, realistic goal. It's about sitting and thinking, what actually am I doing? Because, maybe, you are already doing enough meditation.
If we make the expectation clear, then we can work towards it, rather than use it as a stick to beat ourselves up with. If we agree with our Should – which often we don't – we can use it as a motivation.
Francesca Specter: I like that: we can agree with our Shoulds. I started out this newsletter thinking, ‘OK, I've always been told off for ‘should’ statements – so I want to debunk them all.’ But, actually, I guess it's more about listening to them, exploring and examining them.
Dr Emma Hepburn: In my new book, I have a section on dealing with guilt. I've done a flow chart, where the first question is: is this actually something to feel guilty about? That’s where the Shoulds come in. Because often we feel guilty about ‘should’ statements we're making ourselves, but there's actually nothing to feel guilty about.
We need to be realistic. For instance, if you’re a parent and you notice you’re shouting at your kids. You might be saying to yourself, I should never shout, and thinking, I’m a terrible parent. But you can’t be a parent who never shouts. That’s impossible. You can take that Should and say, How can I make this Should an action that I can move towards? Maybe you can say, I want to be calmer at bed times, and find ways to do that. So you shift it from a vague standard to something clear and realistic: a value and an action.
When it comes to your meditation example, you might say, actually, it’s unrealistic. I'm doing enough. I might feel this need to be busy - but that’s a societal expectation. So you can just remove that Should. Or you might say, I do want to be doing more, because I want to take some time for myself. So let's shift it from a Should and make it a clear, actionable intention. Like, I'm going do it for five minutes every morning. If I don’t make it, OK, but I’m going to try. It's about what's behind that Should, if that makes sense.
When you’re saying ‘I should’ do something, the implication is that there's a gap between what we are doing and where we should be.
Francesca Specter: That's such a clear cut way of examining and streamlining those Shoulds that just circulate in our heads. Some we’re just getting rid of– like Whack’a’mole – and some we’re reframing. What kind of language could be useful in that latter process? Is it a case of reframing ‘Shoulds’ into ‘Coulds’, for instance?
Dr Emma Hepburn: I think so. It’s about asking yourself, What does this Should tell me? Is there a value or a need of my own that I’m not meeting? What's behind this feeling that I have, and what can I do – in a small, meaningful, actionable way? So, rather than a Should, it becomes ‘I will’ or ‘I can’. And that's more helpful than a Should, because a Should just sits there and makes you feel guilty. You continue to say, I should be doing this…but I'm not. Whereas, ‘I want to do’ or ‘I can do’ – that means I've got a goal to work towards. It's a shift in that language: rather than a Should, it’s a ‘This is what I want to do, this is what I can do’. In that more tangible language.
Francesca Specter: It reminds me of when writers try to reframe their work as: ‘I don't have to do this, I get to do this.’ It's an interesting shift. And it's just language.
Dr Emma Hepburn: Absolutely. Because our language constructs our world, doesn't it? It constructs our world and it shapes our beliefs and our feelings. If I think: ‘I want to be able to do this’, that's another really clear goal. Rather than I should, it’s I want to be able to do a one minute meditation every morning, or I want to be able to be calmer at bedtime.
Francesca Specter: Let’s go back to the idea of the emotions below a ‘Should’ statement. We’ve talked a bit about the guilt cycle – which other emotions come along when we say ‘I should’, and how could those emotions change once we reframe our thinking?
Dr Emma Hepburn: Often, it is guilt. When you’re saying ‘I should’ do something, the implication behind it is that there's a gap between what we are doing and where we should be. I call it the ‘Should gap’. The Should gap can get filled with guilt or feeling bad or feeling ashamed of yourself – because you're not meeting these standards. Generally, there are difficult feelings that come with setting these Shoulds.
I think by recognising that there may be unrealistic kinds of Shoulds, we can push some of them aside and decide, That one's not something to feel guilty about. That’s what it’s like with those ‘Whack’a’mole’ Shoulds.
Or else, we convert those Shoulds and think, That's useful because it’s telling me something that I want to be doing. When we set a positive, meaningful goal, it shifts from this vague, guilt-inducing thing into a possibility: this is how I can make these things work for me. Bear in mind we need to factor in failure – into everything we do, because goals go wrong and life throws things at us. But if we direct our feelings in the right way, it can lead to an exciting, fun, joyful goal.
Coming up… 🥁
Next week’s theme is ‘I should be more productive’, so if this is one of your Shoulds (and let’s face it, you’re not alone!) then do make sure you subscribe. Subscribers will receive everything straight to their inboxes, including a mid-week community discussion; a list of hand-picked links & resources (selected because they’re helpful and inspiring, rather than shame-y – we have a ‘shame-free’ policy on The Shoulds!); and the regular Sunday newsletter.
Some housekeeping: A couple of you have asked about free versus paid subscriptions. I’m keeping all of this content free up until next month, as I wanted to give everyone an opportunity to experience all that The Shoulds has to offer. I did, however, want to say a massive thank you to those of you who have purchased a paid subscription already. It really does mean the world to know you’ve enjoyed my work so far and will continue to benefit from everything this community has to offer. If you’d like to upgrade your subscription, you can do so here for £1.15 a week (or less – for an annual subscription, you pay just under a pound).
For now, I’m shaking off my productivity guilt and heading off on a lunchtime walk. Because no one’s ever regretted a stroll in the sunshine (at time of writing, it’s Friday afternoon and the weather is beautiful here in Lisbon). The weekend brings happy hour drinks & a Bon Iver gig* with some new friends from my co-working space; a 90-minute breathwork workshop (has anyone else tried one of these? Let me know!) at my local yoga studio; and, at some point, a night on the sofa with Haruki Murakami (I downloaded Norwegian Wood on my Kindle earlier this week and hope to fall in love with it, not least because it’s named after a Beatles song). Oh, and a thing from this week: I’m the latest guest on Ali Abdaal’s Deep Dive podcast. You can listen here on Apple or Spotify here (search in your preferred podcast app if not listed) or you can watch the video version. It was a great conversation – Ali is a brilliant, thoughtful interviewer who nails the balance between playful and inquisitive (not an easy feat).
Stay happy, stay curious.
Francesca
*I got rightfully trolled by my friends for the phrase ‘David Guetta show’ in last week’s newsletter.
p.s. I leave you with a poll.
I really enjoyed the notion of changing from Should (guilt) into I want to be able to XYZ.
I'm late for the poll, I would have chosen I should read more!